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  #21  
Old 05-01-2012, 12:05 PM
scout3dave scout3dave is offline
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Originally Posted by JG View Post
What specific actions that Obama has taken have convinced you that

"Obama prefers to increase the number of Americans that are dependent on government/leftist liberals".

Let's have some specifics, please.
Obamacare, 99 weeks of unemployment insurance, increased food stamp availability, increased housing subsidies, union contracting preferances, how many areas of welfare do you want to see?
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  #22  
Old 05-01-2012, 12:11 PM
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Obamacare, 99 weeks of unemployment insurance, increased food stamp availability, increased housing subsidies, union contracting preferances, how many areas of welfare do you want to see?
a.k.a. government.
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  #23  
Old 05-01-2012, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Rio Lobo View Post
******************

Last chance cctxfan.

Government actions, policies, regulations, etc. that interfere with job creation prevent the unemployed -- who have no income and pay little or no taxes -- from becoming re-employed again.

By allowing private industry to grow (removal of the aforementioned encumberances) businesses can expand, job creation occurs, workers are re-employed again, they will have income that is taxable. For every person re-employed or newly employed, the number of taxpayers increases -- and thus tax revenue increases.

Why is that so difficult for you to understand?
It's not hard to understand when you cooperate enough to explain it. The way it was written wasn't exactly conveying your thought...

So, we're at job creation to grow the economy and Obama's policies stand in the way, correct?

Except that we're drilling in more places than we were under Bush, most of the XL pipeline is actually getting built, and fracking activity is going gangbusters.

Housing was in the sh!tter before Obama took office, offshoring jobs was well underway, and you can place equal blame on the GOP for the corporate tax rates we have in place now.

The European economies are struggling, too. China is doing rather well, but has tons of environmental and human rights abuses. Not to mention they're communist. Do you want us to go that direction?

Canada is doing pretty good too. Their single-payer, universal healthcare system doesn't seem to be hurting their economy.

But Obamacare's ruining everything here...
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  #24  
Old 05-01-2012, 12:43 PM
TexasLogic TexasLogic is offline
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a.k.a. government.
aka government? no.

aka welfare state.
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  #25  
Old 05-01-2012, 12:51 PM
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aka government? no.

aka welfare state.
Keep living in your fantasy world.
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  #26  
Old 05-01-2012, 01:01 PM
TexasLogic TexasLogic is offline
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Keep living in your fantasy world.
I'm not surprised that you don't know the difference.
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  #27  
Old 05-01-2012, 01:07 PM
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I'm not surprised that you don't know the difference.
Ooo, burn.

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  #28  
Old 05-01-2012, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Rio Lobo View Post
*****************************

A few examples of Obama's policies that inhibit job creation:

Overly-burdensome tax rates (the highest in the world I believe) on American companies / entrepreneurs drive those businesses overseas, or forces those businesses to outsource more of the labor, materials and services.

ObamaCare is forcing up the cost of doing business for US companies.

Over-regulation of US businesses (e.g. off-shore drilling, Keystone pipeline, others).

Forcing the above constraints (and many others) upon US companies that must compete in worldwide markets that do not have such burdens/constraints -- kills business expansion and job growth in the US -- which inhibits job creation.

Obama and his administration need to get out of the way of "job creation".

If you lived on the Gulf Coast and had to deal with the fallout from the well blowout, I doubt you'd be bitching about regulation of drilling. Same with if you were a farmer in Nebraska...I doubt you'd be complaining about the added scrutiny of running an oil pipeline through the Sand Hills where a rupture could foul the aquifer and completely ruin you.

Also, if you think companies outsource labor because tax rates are too high here, you are stoned out of your mind. Companies outsource labor because...they can pay workers in Honduras and Vietnam and India a hell of a lot less than they have to pay people here.
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  #29  
Old 05-01-2012, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Rio Lobo View Post
*****************************************

Need specifics? Look at the demographics of Obama supporters for obvious:
  1. Government supported groups;
  2. Government employed or controlled groups;
  3. Pandering to or sheltering of protected groups; and
  4. Groups or movements that, through manipulation of their fears/passions or demagoguery, have been growing in numbers.
It's not that difficult.
Wait a second. You didn't say "Obama supporters". You said "Obama". The man himself. Ok...name the specific laws and policies that Obama has put into place that are designed to "increase the number of Americans that are dependent on government/leftist liberals".

Specifics, man. What, exactly, are you referring to?
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  #30  
Old 05-01-2012, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JG View Post
What specific actions that Obama has taken have convinced you that

"Obama prefers to increase the number of Americans that are dependent on government/leftist liberals".

Let's have some specifics, please.
How about the extensions he has given on unemployment insurance? Wouldn't that be a good example? What's that up to now . . . 60 weeks, 90 weeks? How about Obamacare making the public dependent on the government for healthcare? And by the way, we're talking federal withholding taxes not payroll taxes, I'm surprised you don't feel we need to stop those taxes on the bottom 50% too.
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:30 PM
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Let's address those.

1) We ARE in the deepest recession this country has seen in 80 years. You REALLY think in such an environment, extending unemployment insurance is a ploy to make people dependent on the government? Please.

2) ObamaCare...a question...YOU have Medicare. Does that make you dependent on the government and handouts? There's a fundamental disconnect here, but trying to provide health coverage to people without it is HARDLY trying to make them dependent on the government.

Not sure where you are going with the federal taxes versus payroll taxes, but to me, taxes on my paycheck are taxes on my paycheck, whatever the code on the stub says. Maybe not to you?

Neither of those are specific policies are laws that are actually intended to increase dependence on the government. More specifics, please.
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  #32  
Old 05-01-2012, 05:23 PM
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Here are my answers to your above points:

1. Yes.
2. How do you know I am on Medicare? I have my own private Health insurance even though I am retired. Not trusting the government, I planned ahead for both my wife and I.
3. SS/Medicare taxes are not what we are talking about and you know it. The subject is federal withholding taxes.

Obama believes the more voters that come under the federal government's entitlement system, the more votes he and the D's will get and the longer his ilk will remain in power. For a man with damn near 25,000 posts, you should know that by now.
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  #33  
Old 05-01-2012, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JG View Post
Also, if you think companies outsource labor because tax rates are too high here, you are stoned out of your mind. Companies outsource labor because...they can pay workers in Honduras and Vietnam and India a hell of a lot less than they have to pay people here.
******************************************

It’s both odd and disturbing that you believe our present tax rates (among other things), or allowing the tax rates to increase (as Obama proposes) have no impact on the cost of doing business and the cost of goods and services – and no trickle down impact on the cost of living and the wage scale in the US.
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  #34  
Old 05-01-2012, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by JG View Post
" [....]The man himself. Ok...name the specific laws and policies that Obama has put into place that are designed to "increase the number of Americans that are dependent on government/leftist liberals".
Answering your trap or ill-conceived question does nothing to address or adequately define what Obama and his Czars have been doing for the past 3+ years.

In case you haven't noticed, there are pre-existing laws that the Obama Admin chooses to either ignore, loosely enforce, or is threatening to change. Obama has the same attitude towards the Constitution. None of that fits within your question.

If Obama is “your guy” you would learn more about Obama if you research those that support Obama. That includes voters, lawyers, donors, Congressmen, foreign governments and leaders. Furthermore, you also need to consider voters, donors, Congressmen, foreign governments and leaders that oppose Obama.

Also keep in mind that when Obama seriously wants to implement changes without a cooperating Congress, he will sign an Executive Order. Conversely, when Obama merely wants to provide lip-service or slow-play his supporters and detractors, Obama will blame Congress for not implementing the change.

Two question to test your knowledge and perception:

1. You’re aware that Washington still has not passed a Federal Budget. How many of those back-to-back years did Democrats control both the House and Senate? How many of those years did Democrats control both the House and Senate and the White House?
2. Do you know why they did not want to pass a budget, even though they were in control those years?

Last edited by Rio Lobo; 05-01-2012 at 07:50 PM.
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  #35  
Old 05-01-2012, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cctxfan View Post
It's not hard to understand when you cooperate enough to explain it. The way it was written wasn't exactly conveying your thought...

So, we're at job creation to grow the economy and Obama's policies stand in the way, correct?

Except that we're drilling in more places than we were under Bush, most of the XL pipeline is actually getting built, and fracking activity is going gangbusters.

Housing was in the sh!tter before Obama took office, offshoring jobs was well underway, and you can place equal blame on the GOP for the corporate tax rates we have in place now.

The European economies are struggling, too. China is doing rather well, but has tons of environmental and human rights abuses. Not to mention they're communist. Do you want us to go that direction?

Canada is doing pretty good too. Their single-payer, universal healthcare system doesn't seem to be hurting their economy.
*********************************************

Regarding the bolded portions above:

Thin slices of fact, partial facts, exclusion of facts, and debatable information don't paint an accurate picture.

This is why, in a court of law, witnesses are required under oath to tell:
  1. The truth;
  2. the whole truth; and
  3. nothing but the truth.

Last edited by Rio Lobo; 05-01-2012 at 09:00 PM.
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  #36  
Old 05-01-2012, 08:59 PM
cctxfan cctxfan is online now
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Originally Posted by Rio Lobo View Post
*********************************************

Regarding the bolded portions above:

Thin slices of fact, partial facts, exclusion of facts, and debatable information don't paint an accurate picture.

Now you know why, in a court of law, witnesses are required under oath to tell:
  1. The truth;
  2. the whole truth; and
  3. nothing but the truth.
In other words, you aren't actually interested in providing any facts to counter what I've said. For example, you do realize that under Bush and six years of a GOP-controlled Congress the biz tax rate was, uh, 35% - just like it is now? Inconvenient fact, I know.

Do you dispute what I said about China? Or the offshoring of jobs, or the housing market conditions before Obama took over?

Fracking for NG and oil isn't going gangbusters? Have you not been to South Texas recently?

What do you dispute about the European economies? Certainly some countries are doing OK. And guess, what every single one of them has universal healthcare coverage.

The XL pipeline. Most of it *is* getting built. Of course, some refineries will need upgrades to process oil from sand/shale plays.

But yes, the oil and gas industry are suffering because of Obama. Jobs are getting moved offshore all because of Obama and Obamacare. The housing market is all Obama's fault.
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  #37  
Old 05-01-2012, 10:27 PM
horn78 horn78 is offline
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In
Fracking for NG and oil isn't going gangbusters? Have you not been to South Texas recently?
And what the hell should Obama have to do with private domestic drilling output? Now, he takes credit for all this, which is absolute horse@hit.
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  #38  
Old 05-02-2012, 03:58 AM
scout3dave scout3dave is offline
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Originally Posted by cctxfan View Post
It's not hard to understand when you cooperate enough to explain it. The way it was written wasn't exactly conveying your thought...

So, we're at job creation to grow the economy and Obama's policies stand in the way, correct?

Except that we're drilling in more places than we were under Bush, most of the XL pipeline is actually getting built, and fracking activity is going gangbusters.

Housing was in the sh!tter before Obama took office, offshoring jobs was well underway, and you can place equal blame on the GOP for the corporate tax rates we have in place now.

The European economies are struggling, too. China is doing rather well, but has tons of environmental and human rights abuses. Not to mention they're communist. Do you want us to go that direction?

Canada is doing pretty good too. Their single-payer, universal healthcare system doesn't seem to be hurting their economy.

But Obamacare's ruining everything here...
It's funny you mention the oil & gas business because where Obama is involved he is killing jobs. He is responsible for the 1 foot of the XL P/L that crosses the border and we know the politics he is playing with those jobs and our energy security. He is responsible for permitting on federal lands and offshore waters. Once again roadblock to jobs and energy security.

Canada is doing pretty well these days, they are exploiting their resources. Unfortunately for us, we have a president who has just slapped them in the face and told them that we don't want their dirty oil. The Chinese on the other hand would be more than happy to take it off their hands.

This is without a doubt the dumbest move these lunatics have made and considering fast and furious and their green portfolio, that's saying a lot.
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  #39  
Old 05-02-2012, 07:02 AM
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And what the hell should Obama have to do with private domestic drilling output? Now, he takes credit for all this, which is absolute horse@hit.
I'm not advocating that he get credit for all this. What I'm saying is that the claim Obama is destroying the oil and gas economy is absolute horsesh!t.
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Last edited by cctxfan; 05-02-2012 at 08:23 AM.
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  #40  
Old 05-02-2012, 07:11 AM
cctxfan cctxfan is online now
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Originally Posted by scout3dave View Post
It's funny you mention the oil & gas business because where Obama is involved he is killing jobs. He is responsible for the 1 foot of the XL P/L that crosses the border and we know the politics he is playing with those jobs and our energy security. He is responsible for permitting on federal lands and offshore waters. Once again roadblock to jobs and energy security.

Canada is doing pretty well these days, they are exploiting their resources. Unfortunately for us, we have a president who has just slapped them in the face and told them that we don't want their dirty oil. The Chinese on the other hand would be more than happy to take it off their hands.

This is without a doubt the dumbest move these lunatics have made and considering fast and furious and their green portfolio, that's saying a lot.
These projects require environmental compromise - no one completely wins. It's not just Obama that's holding things up, many landowners are concerned about the possible damage this pipeline could inflict. If you owned that land, you might be concerned too.

On the other hand, if the environment always comes in second place, then perhaps we can turn to Russia and use their model. They're drilling and drilling and at the same time have turned hundreds of thousands of acres of northern Russia into wasteland with oil coating just about everything. And, of course, the Russian government won't do everything about it.

As for Canada, it's not that we've told them we don't want their dirty oil, it's that we're trying to make sure the pipeline doesn't leak. Secondly, their single-payer system doesn't seem to be hampering their economy or putting millions of jobs at risk. But Obamacare is going to ruin everything.
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