Texas may be about to build a 'freight shuttle' along I-35

[mdhorn]

Originally Posted by Bitterwhiteguy

It pulls millions of trucks off the I-35 corridor, that's what.

would also save on the wear and tear on the roads.

[Bitterwhiteguy]

Originally Posted by mdhorn

would also save on the wear and tear on the roads.

Which would save millions on resurfacing/rebuilding long-term.

[TOK2000]

I don't doubt JG that it's not a simple project to build this, but having lived through 2 Katy Freeway expansions I seriously doubt there is any way to improve infrastructure painlessly.

So the question isn't really that it will be disruptive to build, but will it in the end will it have a positive impact on transportation in those corridors.

[Vinegar Strokes]

Originally Posted by TOK2000

I don't doubt JG that it's not a simple project to build this, but having lived through 2 Katy Freeway expansions I seriously doubt there is any way to improve infrastructure painlessly.

So the question isn't really that it will be disruptive to build, but will it in the end will it have a positive impact on transportation in those corridors.

You're being very generous by saying JG is just saying it's not a simple job. I'm hearing him say it absolutely can't be done, which is just stupid. I doubt it ever gets done, but it's just being argumentative to say that it can't be.

[mdhorn]

Originally Posted by TOK2000

I don't doubt JG that it's not a simple project to build this, but having lived through 2 Katy Freeway expansions I seriously doubt there is any way to improve infrastructure painlessly.

So the question isn't really that it will be disruptive to build, but will it in the end will it have a positive impact on transportation in those corridors.

I will say this living in one of the most corrupt places on earth--the DC metro area. It can be another way to breed corruption as contracts are going to go to cronies and they'll take longer to build and go over budget and once everything gets laid down then operational maintenance will be a huge drain issue that always needs a rise in ticket costs to almost balance the budget which once again falls short. Meanwhile things will always be broken and you'll seldom see people working on it yet maintenance costs are going over budget and probably require overtime. No lie--I watched them tear down a 12 or 13 story building across the street from my morning metro stop and build another building in it's place upon pouring a new foundation and actually finish it in less time than it took them to fix a broken escalator at my station. Basically, they could have torn down the station and rebuilt it from the foundation up and the building on top of it in the same amount of time. Can you tell that I have issues with city spending on public transportation? It costs them over 30k to change the station signs. So what do they do when they finish changing them? Why vote to change them again. When they finish connecting the bike path from my house to DC in the next few months, I'm taking my bike to work and it will take me a **** load less time to pedal than take the metro. The only reason I don't do it now is I've already been hit on my bike crossing a road when a car blew through a stop sign. I'm now a bike path only guy.

[mdhorn]

I love the idea of the train and public transportation absolutely is the way of the future and students will take it. Overall I support the idea but I dread the likes of John Wiley Price or Rick Perry steering project finances.

[JG]

Oh, it COULD be done. It's just a really foolish idea. The cost is going to be enormous and it won't save you much. Let me try again.

1) For a big chunk of the distance, you would have to tear up the freeway that has only been completed in recent years. There is no place in the median to the columns and the footings necessary. So you would disrupt traffic and jack up the cost massively.

Let me say that again. You can't just stick a column somewhere. You to have a footing below it, and that footing has to be large to enough to keep this top heavy thing from tipping over in 100 mph winds. There's no room to do that over a big chunk of 35.

2) This probably the most important. How will this work? Trucking companies will have to deliver their stuff to the San Antonio end, unload it in some big-ass warehouse there that you'll have to build. Then you'll have to load the freight onto the conveyor, ship it north, and then unload it again in another big-ass warehouse in Waxahachie. Then the trucking companies will have to come get it there.

These companies would still have to have trucks in San Antonio and in Dallas, and they will have to get those trucks back and forth.

The whole thing makes no sense.

If you want the trucks off I-35, build a parallel truck corridor. For that matter, build rail corridor. Oh, wait, we just blew off that idea.

[Bitterwhiteguy]

Originally Posted by JG

2) This probably the most important. How will this work? Trucking companies will have to deliver their stuff to the San Antonio end, unload it in some big-ass warehouse there that you'll have to build. Then you'll have to load the freight onto the conveyor, ship it north, and then unload it again in another big-ass warehouse in Waxahachie. Then the trucking companies will have to come get it there.

Now I KNOW you didn't watch any of the videos on the site.

[scout3dave]

After watching the ads, I agree with JG, it would be hugely expensive and a maintenance nightmare. People have been talking about elevated monorail systems for lightweight human traffic for years but it is too expensive. Building a system for 40,000 lb trailers would be horrendous. Have power outages or breakdowns and the economics would crater.

[Bitterwhiteguy]

Originally Posted by scout3dave

After watching the ads, I agree with JG, it would be hugely expensive and a maintenance nightmare. People have been talking about elevated monorail systems for lightweight human traffic for years but it is too expensive. Building a system for 40,000 lb trailers would be horrendous. Have power outages or breakdowns and the economics would crater.

How is this different than the wrecks & backed-up traffic they deal with now?

[JG]

I watched the videos about the system itself. That was enough to tell me it's a gamma-esque pipe dream.

Just because they made a cartoon doesnt mean this thing will work.

[Bitterwhiteguy]

Originally Posted by JG

I watched the videos about the system itself. That was enough to tell me it's a gamma-esque pipe dream.

Just because they made a cartoon doesnt mean this thing will work.

You ever see the giant-ass trucking depot near Seagoville? You know what they do there? Load & unload containers onto 18-wheelers. Truckers going to a depot to pick up & drop off containers isn't exactly an unprecedented idea.

[cctxfan]

Don't really know how well this thing would take traffic off I-35, but like JG said, you'd have tear up I-35 pretty good. But... I still think it would be cheaper because you wouldn't have to buy tens of thousands of acres of right-of-way, not to mention build six lanes plus freight in the middle.

[scout3dave]

Originally Posted by Bitterwhiteguy

How is this different than the wrecks & backed-up traffic they deal with now?

The difference is that a normal breakdown can be pulled off the side of the road and everybody keeps on going. Here the whole system comes to a halt. accidents anywhere are bad but the majority of accidents can be cleaned up and moved on as you have multiple lanes to deal with it.

[Bitterwhiteguy]

Originally Posted by cctxfan

Don't really know how well this thing would take traffic off I-35, but like JG said, you'd have tear up I-35 pretty good. But... I still think it would be cheaper because you wouldn't have to buy tens of thousands of acres of right-of-way, not to mention build six lanes plus freight in the middle.

Not to mention you've now got a 250 mile stretch where all the cargo is being powered by our electrical grid(domestic energy) & not oil(foreign energy).

250 miles / 7mpg = ~35.7 gallons of gas * (18,000 trucks/day * 365) = 234,549,000 gallons of gas per year we're not importing. It's a step in the right direction.

[SAhornfan]

Originally Posted by scout3dave

The difference is that a normal breakdown can be pulled off the side of the road and everybody keeps on going. Here the whole system comes to a halt. accidents anywhere are bad but the majority of accidents can be cleaned up and moved on as you have multiple lanes to deal with it.

You obviously have never been stuck in accident traffic on I-35 south of Dallas. Even the most minor fender bender stops traffic, even when it's on the side of the road.

[Bitterwhiteguy]

Originally Posted by SAhornfan

You obviously have never been stuck in accident traffic on I-35 south of Dallas. Even the most minor fender bender stops traffic, even when it's on the side of the road.

No kidding.

[DC Horn]

The question is not "can it be built?". It could be built (putting disruption to the side). The real question: "is there a viable economic model to build and operate this?".

Besides getting right of way access, does this venture require any other public funding? Or is this totally private funds? What does the project $2.5B cost figure actually cover? Rest assured if the proponents are positioning a $2.5B number, there's a reasonable probability the number goes up.

Will companies be mandated to use, or is it an opt-in?

An interesting concept with lots of merits, but there's some more disclosure necessary to determine how economically viable this truly is.

[JG]

That's the other issue. You can't mandate trucking companies use this.

I-35 is a major federal highway corridor. States and localities cannot block truck traffic from using it. You can build dedicated truck lanes and separate them from cars, but you can't simply take them off the highway.

[scout3dave]

Originally Posted by SAhornfan

You obviously have never been stuck in accident traffic on I-35 south of Dallas. Even the most minor fender bender stops traffic, even when it's on the side of the road.

Hey I live in Houston, accidents suck but if you only have one lane and it gets blocked the whole system comes tumbling down. Now are you going to bring a crane on to the car lanes to lift the transporter off or design the elevated rails to handle double the weight to send a crane up the line to remove the trailer/container.

I think it is very cool but I can't imagine it could be done for less than a highway. This sounds like a boondoggle.