Frustated with Obama on the left - Page 2

OldestHorn · #21 07-26-2011, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scout3dave

Ah! good point, but those f$cks are smart enough to not take that money as ordinary income!

Making the argument that all income, whether cap gains, or ordinary "earned" income, should be taxed the same makes sense and is "fair". The effect on tax receipts though would be negative as people wouldn't take cap gains as often.

Agreed. The main point is "carried interest", which is what a fund manager earns based on performance. Right now carried interest is taxed at the capital gains rate.

I don't think it is in anyone's best interest to raise capital gains taxes. Carried interest getting cap gains treatment is the real issue.

scout3dave · #22 07-26-2011, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldestHorn

Agreed. The main point is "carried interest", which is what a fund manager earns based on performance. Right now carried interest is taxed at the capital gains rate.

I don't think it is in anyone's best interest to raise capital gains taxes. Carried interest getting cap gains treatment is the real issue.

Agreed, it's an interesting debate from a purely technical perspective. Or not!

scout3dave · #23 07-26-2011, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke Silver

That's debatable and certainly not overwhelmingly supported by the evidence either way. Changes in capital gain taxes (and the knowledge of them beforehand) influences when people cash in more than the absolute rate. But in this specific case, if this guy's only income is stock options or the like, he has no choice but to realize them at sometime.

Agreed, but he will also be sure and take management income so he can qualify for Medicare!

TexasLogic · #24 07-26-2011, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG

Just what I said. All pay some...some pay more. There was nothing wrong with the tax brackets as set by Clinton and the Dems in 1993.

You sound like Obama - all platitudes, no specifics. Let me help you out. These are the percentages of income tax paid by the top earners in this country:

top 1% pays 38%
top 10% pays 70%
top 20% pays 86%

By my reasoning, that is more than a fair share of the income tax burden. But you say they aren't paying their fair share. So please fill in the percentages of total income taxes paid that you feel would be fair.

JG · #25 07-26-2011, 02:39 PM

Your numbers are meaningless, because they don't include all federal taxes on income. And you know it. You're just LYING to make a point. Again.

Come back and let's talk about all federal taxes on income.

Duke Silver · #26 07-26-2011, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG

Your numbers are meaningless, because they don't include all federal taxes on income. And you know it. You're just LYING to make a point. Again.

Come back and let's talk about all federal taxes on income.

Wow. Just wow.

horn78 · #27 07-26-2011, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG

Your numbers are meaningless, because they don't include all federal taxes on income. And you know it. You're just LYING to make a point. Again.

Come back and let's talk about all federal taxes on income.

Another example of why you just don't get it.

JG · #28 07-26-2011, 02:45 PM

Just wow indeed.

Duke, people like this pretend that because the lower end pays "FICA" taxes instead of "FIT" taxes, those aren't real taxes and so the wealthy pay everything. It's simply bull$hit. If you can't see through it I'm sorry for you.

Duke Silver · #29 07-26-2011, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG

Just wow indeed.

Duke, people like this pretend that because the lower end pays "FICA" taxes instead of "FIT" taxes, those aren't real taxes and so the wealthy pay everything. It's simply bull$hit. If you can't see through it I'm sorry for you.

You're sorry for me. Yes...makes perfect sense.

JG · #30 07-26-2011, 03:37 PM

They do this crap to fool people. If you are a fool and buy it, then yes I feel sorry for you.

The Dems do their own fooling, demagoguing about rich people and scaring old people that SS might be threatened. But here, it's Pubs that are doing it to try and make people think that only the rich pay taxes.

Duke Silver · #31 07-26-2011, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG

They do this crap to fool people. If you are a fool and buy it, then yes I feel sorry for you.

The Dems do their own fooling, demagoguing about rich people and scaring old people that SS might be threatened. But here, it's Pubs that are doing it to try and make people think that only the rich pay taxes.

Add in the FICA taxes if you want. It doesn't make a enough difference to change the point. You know why? Because all the income groups TL mentions also pay f*cking FICA tax.

And since when are people in the top 20% of earners rich? Even the top 10%.

TexasLogic · #32 07-26-2011, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG

Your numbers are meaningless, because they don't include all federal taxes on income. And you know it. You're just LYING to make a point. Again.

Come back and let's talk about all federal taxes on income.

OK, now I've finished laughing. I guess your answer is that you don't know what a fair share is. You just want the rich to pay it. Glad we cleared that up.

radhorn2 · #33 07-26-2011, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke Silver

Add in the FICA taxes if you want. It doesn't make a enough difference to change the point. You know why? Because all the income groups TL mentions also pay f*cking FICA tax.

And since when are people in the top 20% of earners rich? Even the top 10%.

Don't forget all those self employed "millionaires and billionaires making $250,000/yr" that pay double FICA taxes.

NeverAgain · #34 07-26-2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG

Count me in on that.

He STILL doesn't get the way to make this work...to get the country behind him. He STILL is trying to play to the base, just as the Pubs are playing to theirs.

He's scared. He's scared to say the word "taxes", as is raise them. He danced all over "raising revenue", without saying raising taxes. And it needs to be done, just as we need to make significant cuts, including in entitlement programs.

I wish to God the man would take a stand that we are all in this together, rich and poor, Dems and Pubs, and it's going to HURT to get out. He's still trying to counterpunch the Pubs instead of just dealing with the problem and being the one landing the hits.

Dammit.

Where is Ross Perot with his charts and graphs when you need him?

Your Country needs you JG.

We are hopelessly in debt.

Please send more of your money to Washington.

You CAN do that - it's perfectly legal and they will accept over-payments to be applied to the nat'l debt.

Please do it JG - for the sake of your Country !!!!

editionshield · #35 07-26-2011, 07:07 PM

JG has expressed willingness to pay higher taxes, actually.

I would, too, even though I'm not as stinkin' rich as JG.

UTGrad91 · #36 07-26-2011, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldestHorn

I don't think it is in anyone's best interest to raise capital gains taxes. Carried interest getting cap gains treatment is the real issue.

Carried interest has got to go Guys making a billion dollars running a hedge fund shouldn't pay tax at the LT cap gain rate. If they want to increase revenue, loopholes like this should be the first things to go.

seadaddy · #37 07-26-2011, 08:41 PM

I'm with you, 91, time for many of these loopholes to bite the dust as well as wasteful entitlements and government unions . . . for starters.

JG · #38 07-26-2011, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radhorn2

Don't forget all those self employed "millionaires and billionaires making $250,000/yr" that pay double FICA taxes.

They don't pay double FICA taxes on that $250,000. Just Medicare after $100k. Add up the total. It's a different picture when you do.

scout3dave · #39 07-27-2011, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG

They don't pay double FICA taxes on that $250,000. Just Medicare after $100k. Add up the total. It's a different picture when you do.

I'm one of those millionaires and billionaires that make around 250K. My wife and I combined cross that threshhold so we pay SS on approx 210K and Medicare on all of it. We are typical of the folks that are doing ok and combined quite well. We ain't rich though.

scout3dave · #40 07-27-2011, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UTGrad91

Carried interest has got to go Guys making a billion dollars running a hedge fund shouldn't pay tax at the LT cap gain rate. If they want to increase revenue, loopholes like this should be the first things to go.

Why should they not? Carried interest is a piece of the pie and if the entitity increases in value over the years then it is no different than any other capital gain.

I am not defending these guys but if you have a capital gains provision, then all capital gains should be treated the same. If you want to raise the rate then that would be a different discussion.

Congress has been arguing this point for years but so far, through dem and pub majorities they have decided to maintain cap gains treatment equitably.

As much as Buffett had whined about the practice, he still used it.