Charges Filed.

Discussion in 'Politics and Current Events' started by bHero, Oct 27, 2017.

  1. sausalitohorn

    sausalitohorn Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    After that, Trump, Jr. did not respond again to Wikileaks, but the organization wrote several times to Trump, Jr., at one point asking for copies of Trump's tax returns.

    Wikileaks said there were several reasons leaking the tax returns would benefit the Trump campaign, including improving "the perception of our impartiality."

    "That means that the vast amount of stuff that we are publishing on Clinton will have much higher impact, because it won't be perceived as coming from a 'pro-Trump' 'pro-Russia' source," Wikileaks wrote, adding that Trump, Jr. should also send "any other negative stuff (documents, recordings) that you think has a decent chance of coming out. Let us put it out."
  2. Aramirezw14

    Aramirezw14 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    The intelligence community, an apparatus of over a dozen agencies filled with career, non-partisan operatives, released an assessment in October that Russia and WikiLeaks were working in coordination to influence the election. This was around the time the President was imploring Pugs on Capitol Hill, namely Mitch McConnell, to release a bipartisan statement on the matter as a show of unity against a foreign threat. McConnell chose party over country.

    A week later, Dotard Jr. was tweeting sh*t out at the behest of WikiLeaks. Again, party over country...

    How low the GOP has sunk since 2008 is truly sad... The demise of this great country is happening before our eyes.
  3. bHero

    bHero Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Boxes of Pepe!

    It just looks like a giant dog that didn't bark. We all want to know about any help the Campaign got from possible Russian sources. And with it being a Democratic source to a Democratic paper the complete omission of the topic is suggestive that the bomb might fizzle. It's still clear that politicians, babes in the woods or not, seem to be willing to go obscene lengths to win. Our process has been compromised quite thoroughly. Disgraceful state of affairs.
  4. bHero

    bHero Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    That's both sides. The democrats were knowingly propping up a propaganda dossier sourced from Russian intelligence. Mitch McConnell is a lowlife on another level, though. He should be standing beside Paul Manafort.
    RepOfTexas likes this.
  5. Aramirezw14

    Aramirezw14 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    The Steele dossier isn't propaganda. There's no state influence behind it. It's a piece of raw intelligence, compiled by a former British agent, that has not been sufficiently corroborated. The DNC paid for the investigative work behind it, to try and uncover the nature of Dotard's foreign business interests (since he would not disclose his tax returns). They did not release the contents of the dossier. They did not doctor the contents of the dossier to cast Dotard in a negative light (as was done with the email hacking).

    There are issues with the way the dossier was handled after it was completed. Namely, it should not have been leaked by BuzzFeed without being independently substantiated. But, this is not a "both sides do it" situation.
    hwhondaman likes this.
  6. bHero

    bHero Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    You might want to look into recent developments on the Dossier. It is propaganda, not intelligence, by the same people hired to discredit the ACORN and Planned Parenthood videos and a few hotspots the Democratic Party has had to deal with politically.

    I won't bother putting everything in perfect order, but everything below is sources from CNN/Washington Post and the Intelligence Committee Hearings. Google away.

    The DNC and Clinton campaign took up the project that the never-trumpers (One Republic, via Marco Rubio Campaign) initially funded, and the Dossier was leaked by to several media outlets. Mark Elias retained the opposition research company FUSION GPS on behalf of the Clinton Campaign during the election, who then hire Christopher Steele to finish the work. They funded operations into Oct '16 (Washington Post).

    The opposition research firm the Clinton Campaign and DNC funded has direct ties to the Russian Government, and they potentially facilitated a disinformation campaign (WSJ). They are currently under investigation for failing to register under (FARA) Foreign Agents Registration Act as part of different case.

    Additionally the Clinton Campaign bankrolled Steele's Russia "sources," and testified that they paid $1,020,000 to Fusion GPS for the project, which then gave Steele another $168,000. Steele was unable to travel to Russia because he's former MI-6. He paid the sources and interviewed them through 3rd parties. Claimed sources included current officials in the Russian Government.

    The former Secretary of State and presidential candidate is on record paying a former member of a foreign government's intelligence agency, who then allegedly paid and talked to other foreign government intelligence agency members (Kremlin sources), which were interviewed via 3rd party, with campaign money secretly funneled through a law firm for the purpose of negative campaigning, and illegally filed on FEC fillings.

    The funds that were fraudulently filed on the FEC filings as "legal fees" has the Clinton Campaign currently under official investigation for violating Federal Campaign law (nothing will happen... maybe a fine).

    Every claim the Mueller investigation has leaked and reached a decision on wrt the Dossier has been debuked, with not one single claim independently verified. Even Mr. Steele himself said the information was not verified and never meant to go public (but then later admitted to shopping the Dossier to the media).

    Additionally, ACTING PRESIDENT Barak Obama's official campaign (OFA) funneled another 972K to FUSION GPS.

    Additionally, a spouse with a Fusion GPS executive (Shailagh Murray) was working as an employee in ACTING PRESIDENT Barak Obama's West Wing, and CNN reported that Murray, spouse of FUSION exec, used the Dossier to justify surveillance on the Trump Campaign staff. This is the same person who, while still working at Fusion also published stories with Glenn Simpson, who is the man who personally hired Christopher Steele.

    Additionally, the person at CNN who reported the surveillance justification is Evan Perez, justice correspondent with CNN who is close personal friends with FUSION's founders. Perez did no disclose his relationships with FUSION leadership and operatives at any point during his reporting on the Dossier for CNN. The WSJ rebuked it's own former staff,"Americans don’t need a Justice Department coverup abetted by Glenn Simpson’s media buddies," in the editorials as a result of the reporting on FUSION.

    Additionally, Glenn Simpson was hired by the same lawyer who visited Trump JR at Trump Towers, Natalia Veselnitskaya, acting on behalf of RUSSIA, to lobby for a repeal of the Magnitsky Act. Remember that conversation being reported, the one about adoptions (aka sanctions)? Hermitage Capital CEO William Browder (British) went on testify, this is the Hermitage Capital that's one of the largest investors in RUSSIA, he went on to testify that FUSION GPS was working with the RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT on the Dossier. He testified that by the Spring of 2016 FUSION GPS was receiving money indirectly from the Russian Government.

    RUSSIAN LAWYER Natalia Veselnitskaya went through Baker Hostetler to hire FUSION GPS to descredit the CEO William Browder in advance of the Senate hearings on the Magnitsky Act. The act obviously passed back then, but Natalia hasn't given up apparently. FUSION GPS was hired by RUSSIA for PROPAGANDA. "He [Glenn Simpson] contacted a number of major newspapers and other publications to spread false information that Sergei Magnitsky was not murdered, was not a whistle-blower, and was instead a criminal. They also spread false information that my presentations to lawmakers around the world were untrue."

    In IC hearings, FUSION was characterized as, "highly paid smear experts," "Fusion is basically a pen-for-hire shop, whose owners are prepared to concoct completely spurious stories that are fed to media contacts developed over years of legitimate work in reputable outlets."


    Get the idea? It's a big cluster****, with some big names paying dealing with the wrong people, getting fed bad information, controlling the reporting, timing stories, horrendously justified surveillance and subsequent leaks, and ongoing campaign.
    RepOfTexas and horn78 like this.
  7. Shane3

    Shane3 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Oh man this is awful. :(
  8. bHero

    bHero Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Trumps campaign had a bunch of rookies. Totally in over their heads.
  9. Aramirezw14

    Aramirezw14 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Reeks, on its own, of a poorly sourced article written by a bunch of dumbasses at Breitbart or Drudge.
  10. bHero

    bHero Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    You’re not very good at this. That’s from CNN, WSJ WAPO and CSPAN. You should try looking stuff up from time to time instead of just getting your news from salon and vox.
    Shane3 likes this.
  11. Aramirezw14

    Aramirezw14 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I can bull**** on that. I don't doubt the factual parts are widely reported, but the underpinning narrative is grasping at straws as was the Uranium One fiasco and just about anything else spewed by so-called journalists at Breitbart, Drudge, and other sh*t organizations. It takes a bunch of facts, some verified and some not, and assumes all is somehow connected.

    I don't read Salon or Vox, either. Also sh*t, mostly. WSJ is also now mostly sh*t too unfortunately.
  12. ole tnhorn

    ole tnhorn Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Does Druge create any journalism or any content? I thought they were just a site with links to articles created by others.
  13. Aramirezw14

    Aramirezw14 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I stand corrected if that's all they do.
  14. bHero

    bHero Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    1) The context and meeting with Russian Lawyer Natalia and Trump Jr at Trump Tower on sanctions is a fact in evidence. She was looking into "adoptions," which the committees recognized as a conversation on the elimination of sanctions related to the Maginksky Act.
    2) The previous meeting with Natalia through an American Lawyer and subsequent hiring of Fusion GPS is a fact in evidence, hence the Maginsky-Hermitage CEO's involvement in this investigation..
    3a) The investigation into Fusion GPS's failure to register as a foreign agent under FARA, due to Russian Government involvement, with regards to the Maginsky case, is a fact in evidence.
    3b) There has already been at least one legal settlement with the contact that Natalia used to hire Fusion GPS and the Justice Departments, explicitly due to Russian Government involvement.
    4) The DNC/Hillary/Obama funding of Fusion GPS through a law firm, in secret is a fact in evidence.
    5) The related investigation into the Clinton Campaign for campaign fraud is a fact in evidence.

    This is all verified and public.

    Also verified and public:
    1) The Obama Administration had a member on West Wing staff who is a spouse of a FUSION GPS executive. Close friend of Simpson, man who hired Steele and created Russia Dossier, as well as the same man paid by the Russian Govt for the Maginsky/Hermitage smear campaign that failed.
    2) That spouse is Shailagh Murray, senior communications director.
    3) CNN justice correspondent Evan Perez is a close personal friend of FUSION founders and executives, to include Simpson.
    4) Even Perez published stories on the dossier which bolstered its credibility, to include that the Obama Administration used the Dossier to justify surveillance.
    5) Obama's official campaign (OFA) paid money to FUSION (staffer's spouse company) during this time (over 900K in total from April to September).

    Sure, it could all be a coincidence that the president started sending money to one of his employee's spouses company in April 2016, who then created a document that was used to have our US government intelligence services spy on our own citizens during an active presidential election.

    And I'm sure all subsequent leaks from officials in the Obama administration had nothing to do with this document that the president (and DNC) paid for.
    And I'm sure that nothing in the Dossier itself came from US Intelligence services and was then fed to FUSION GPS to help craft the document.

    It's all just random acts, huh. Man, you zealots are fun with your blind faith in the party.
    hwhondaman likes this.
  15. bHero

    bHero Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I can honestly say I haven't been to that site, or info wars, in years, if ever.
  16. mcb0703!

    mcb0703! Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Drudge rarely creates any journalism; he does have sources that will give him scoops that he posts. Ex: Matt Drudge was the first to report on the Bill-Monica episodes

    Otherwise, he links stories from many outlets
  17. bHero

    bHero Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    A notable leader at Drudge was Andrew Breitbart, who left after Matt Drudge introduced him Ariana Huffington to help set up Huffington Post. Matt and Ariana are friends, and Andrew Breitbart and Ariana Huffington were close friends up until his death. But the political zealots don't like truth and prefer the fiction that everyone is a pub or dem and all sides hate the other nevermore.
  18. hwhondaman

    hwhondaman Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I’m guessing you are a little left leaning...
    But since you are IN THE KNOW, how much did Uranium 1 sell for?
    And did the Clinton Foundation’s large $130,000,000 donor also donate to other causes and if so how much and who and when were they?
    I would like an investigation just to get to the bottom and since the FBI never got to look at those emails on Hillary’s servers this would be perfect way to look at who all was donating to Clinton Foundation.
    You wouldn’t mind if a slew of Trump donors and conservative lawyers are heading up the investigation of the foundation also?
  19. Aramirezw14

    Aramirezw14 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    A thread:
  20. mcb0703!

    mcb0703! Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

  21. Aramirezw14

    Aramirezw14 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    It's a string of tweets with vids of Shepard Smith of Fox News, dotard.
  22. mcb0703!

    mcb0703! Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    From Matt Gertz of Media Matters, dick brain. It's even his twitter account you posted
  23. Aramirezw14

    Aramirezw14 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    The messenger is not relevant to the topic is the point.
  24. sausalitohorn

    sausalitohorn Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    On this board it's about the messenger.
  25. mcb0703!

    mcb0703! Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Breitbart & Drudge are routinely slammed on this site from the libs...but now we're supposed to take Media Matters serious?

    Yeah, no liberal double standard there
    bHero likes this.
  26. Aramirezw14

    Aramirezw14 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Watch Shepard Smith. Ignore the tweeters words. It's not that hard.
  27. bHero

    bHero Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Ah, David Brock’s self proclaimed progressive take on Breitbart, Media Matters.

    It really is quite humorous to hear you bemoan Drudge and the like when you just sourced a sister site.

    Please keep up the credibility campaign, you’re doing really well.
  28. bHero

    bHero Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    It’s called a pivot. Taking semantics out of context to claim victory over an arguement not made. Tapper wore that one out over last winter.
  29. bHero

    bHero Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Hahahaha. Says the guy whose whole arguement on this thread was attacking messengers. That’s crap cuz WSJ, Breitbart, etc etc.
  30. mcb0703!

    mcb0703! Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I always enjoy outing lib hypocrites...but it's not quite as fun as when they out themselves.

    Please, show us more of this journalistic beacon, Media Matters.
    horn78 likes this.
  31. sausalitohorn

    sausalitohorn Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Slam the source and the messsenger.
    Aramirezw14 likes this.
  32. hwhondaman

    hwhondaman Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I saw Sheps piece and it was like they started with a end result in mind to begin with while not mentioning a undercover informant that has testified about all kickbacks and bribes paid to put the Uranium 1 deal together.
    I bet Shep has a similar piece ready about how there wasn’t anything wrong with the FBI lettting Hillary destroy her servers and hard drives that might have proved her innocence....or guilt.
    But I wouldn’t hang my hat on Shepherd Smith’s declaration of Hillary’s innocence.
    She may not be found guilty but she damn sure isn’t innocent.
  33. Aramirezw14

    Aramirezw14 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Hey man, thanks for watching Shep's piece at least. You're dead wrong, but these other pricks were too dense to even bother. I mean it is Fox News after all. But, apparently Shep is a Hillary lap dog now. Fox News has been infiltrated by the deep state!!!!
  34. bHero

    bHero Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Do you know who Shep is?

    I watched the clip, which is why I mocked his argument since it was a straw man from start to finish.

    You should be embarrassed for falling for the “Obama didn’t tap trumps wires” bit. He’s using semantics.

    We know now that the Obama administration did have electronic surveillance on Trump Tower, and we also know that Obama didn’t break in and hack his computer to do it. Some people who just want absolution and focus on any semantic escape hatch they can find, the rest of us want to know the truth.
    hwhondaman, ole tnhorn and Shane3 like this.
  35. Aramirezw14

    Aramirezw14 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Holy ****, surveillance of trump tower now... Don't you forget about that DNC staffer that was a part of an assassination plot!
  36. Hiphopster

    Hiphopster Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Semantics? The **** are you talking about? This is pathetic for a man of your intellect.

    Stop. Trump accused our former POTUS of breaking the law or at least bending it for political gain. That is 100%, categorically false. The truth is clear for anyone that wants to know it. Any information that was gleaned on Trump administration officials came as a result of legal wiretaps that were granted by either the FISA court or other court due to direct evidence that a crime was being committed.

    Stop lying to yourself. Accept the fact that the administration you voted for and repeatedly defended is not doing what you thought they were going to do--drain the swamp. In fact, they are showing themselves to be the most corrupt and demonstrably most dishonest administration ever, and it is not even close. And given that we had a Nixon administration that is the symbol of corruption and dishonesty, I'd say hold on to your hat for what's coming.
  37. bHero

    bHero Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    You do realize that was reported by CNN and the New York Times? I’m going to have to stop taking you seriously, you clearly don’t have any idea what’s being reported by any news source.

    You should have caught on by now that I’ve been purposely only citing left leaning news sources, but you just keep taking the bait over and over again. Don’t you get tired of looking like a silly pundit?
  38. SAhornfan

    SAhornfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    He's a graduate of the JG school.
    bHero and horn78 like this.
  39. mcb0703!

    mcb0703! Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I did....hence proving you & @Aramirezw14 are nothing more than liberal hypocrites while I simultaneously slammed Media Matters.

    Maybe the both of you should come back with a better plan than proving yourselves hypocrites; you're making this way too easy
    bHero and horn78 like this.
  40. bHero

    bHero Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    You are missing the point, so I won’t address the logical fallacies in your post but instead clarify what I’m saying.

    The semantic escape hatch is a tactic of focusing on language used instead of what happened. It’s trying to get off on a technicality. Shep plays on people’s ignorance by saying it’s not possible for bribery because Hillary didn’t sign the paperwork. That’s dumb. Just like people saying Obama didn’t climb a light pole and tap trump tower and then snicker at how dumb the accusation was to begin with. It’s a lame semantic alight of hand, which works on dumb people. Whether or not Obama was encouraging or aware is irrelevant. It’s the way the conversation is being handled that the subject.

    While you’ve been on your sabbatical, we’ve been documenting the Democratic and Republican parties obstruction to the initial Trump 3rd party agenda, and Donald Trump’s slow March to moderation as he caved. I used the analogy of the Roman Senate and praetorian guard. It’s been very apropos. And I gave predictions early on that Trump was morally flexible on platform if it got him more affirmation and would become “one of them” soon enough. He really is a pliable old man.

    The Republicans have come out and admitted they spend much of their time over the first six months trying to stop trumps agenda. We already knew the same held true for the Democrats. Don’t think about that from a party perspective, think about that from a constitutional perspective. Because now the president is beholden to a congress led by Mitch McConnel and Chuck Schumer, neither of which cares about leading their states or this nation.

    Regardless we’ve talked about that a lot around here, and you can read the history or start another thread.

    With that aside, your amateur attempts to revise history so you can feel another gotcha moment are kind of annoying. You and I may go to battle on politics, but I don’t place you in the same category of ineptness as the other poster above. Try not to fall to his level.

    Take a cue from @windycityhorn and acknowledge the full weight of the facts and reality with confidence and a measure of equity, even when the situation does not best serve the interest of the party you prefer. It’s called gravitas. Also known as keeping your **** together.

    The reality is that some people in our government went to extreme measures for political purposes. They were also either blinded by ambition or willfully ignorant of Russia’s complicity in the schemes. And this is true on both sides.

    Uranium One is another. Much like the Iran Deal, it won’t be fully unraveled for a long time because both sides are implicated and self preservation says to led the dog lay.

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