On Trump, the Fauxmergency, and the Currency of the Presidency

Discussion in 'Politics and Current Events' started by W.W. McClyde, Feb 16, 2019.

  1. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I figure before long 90% of the conservatives will have talked themselves into thinking this was a good thing for Trump to do because...Obama.
  2. cctxfan

    cctxfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Perhaps, but no president has declared a national emergency to use funds that Congress expressly said they didn’t want to give him.

    The wall funding isn’t Congressional inaction. Congress specifically stated they didn’t want to spend as much as Trump wanted.
    ATX_Horn and W.W. McClyde like this.
  3. W.W. McClyde

    W.W. McClyde Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Yes. I was aware of those precedents when I wrote.

    But I continue to believe this situation is distinguishable for the reasons I set forth above.

    Thank you for posting the link. It was interesting reading.
    TexasPalladin likes this.
  4. Duke Silver

    Duke Silver Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    My god you're stupid.
    Halas likes this.
  5. W.W. McClyde

    W.W. McClyde Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    If you're going to toss grenades, do a better job.

    There's an art to it, but you appear to be too lazy to do it justice. When you write things like this, you're proving yourself to be no better than the mindless shills on FOX News (or MSNBC for that matter).
  6. Duke Silver

    Duke Silver Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    You must be new here. He will never change. He’s a pathetic loser.
    Halas likes this.
  7. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    There is an art to it, I agree.

    But the art or offering writing well crafted arguments is wasted here. It is not appreciated, nor is any argument not parroting the standard conservative line desired or valued.

    So that makes me lazy. I post a fleeting thought and move on.

    I should do better.

    Or more likely I should find a better way to spend my time than arguing with people who will never agree with me, don’t like me, and don’t want to be argued with anyway.
  8. sacatomato horn

    sacatomato horn Member Who Talks

    A couple of points I would raise to this:

    1. You're right the Wall is not congressional inaction, but the current legislation has an expiration date in September, likely before the Supreme Court ruling, and therefore a congressional impasse very well may exist that creates the precedent that the opposition says is currently lacking. To WW's point, Trump's impatience and mind numbing presser are operating against him. He should have waited until a real logjam materialized to attempt this.
    2. I am not personally supportive of President Trump using emergency powers for the Wall. This is a dangerous precedent which may lead to unintended consequences and a further transfer of Congressional purse power to the administrative state. The Dems will most certainly weaponize this, and therefore I hope will be defeated. I am just pointing out what I believe the Trump administration's arguments will be and that some of them will be well reasoned.

    I would say in conclusion that it is amusing that both parties get baptized in the Church of Strict Constitutional Constructionists the moment the opposition party takes the Presidential Oath of Office.

    Cheers to you. These agreeable disagreements are informative and entertaining. Grenade throwing is not.
  9. sacatomato horn

    sacatomato horn Member Who Talks

    Good discussion. I raised a couple of additional points with cctxfan if you remain interested in this. Cheers!
    W.W. McClyde likes this.
  10. Duke Silver

    Duke Silver Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

  11. jhablinski

    jhablinski Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Of all the issues facing this country illegal immigration is at it near the top for me. The sheer costs of it and the changes to our country because of it are a major concern.

    Every time a president of either party does something like this the other side flips out.

    Status quo if you ask me
    msflash and TexasPalladin like this.
  12. W.W. McClyde

    W.W. McClyde Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I don't know what he is. But I don't think calling him stupid and and a loser accomplishes anything. Perhaps this is just a round-robin inside joke I don't know.
    I don't know how you feel about all of this, so I can only speak for myself.

    [Note: This became more than I intended when I started, and it basically became a personal journal entry, but I'm printing it anyway, so f*ck it.]

    I write for me. Do I want to hear what other people think about it? Absolutely. Is it gratifying to make even one person think a little bit? Of course it is. Does it make me feel good when someone appreciates it? Damn right.

    But once I'm comfortable enough to toggle the "post" button here or anywhere else, I've already achieved what I set out to do. I did some work. The more work I do, the better I get. I'm a very good lawyer. I'm a great father. (And I know a metric f*ckton about hitting a baseball.) But I believe we all have at least one God-given gift, and writing is mine.

    Over the last eight months -- while I was on sabbatical from this and other fora -- I've made a lot of fundamental changes in my life. Rededicating myself to writing is one of them. I'm just now scratching the surface, and I don't know where it will go. But I'll do it until I die. It feeds the soul.

    So, for where I am at this particular time and place, I don't care if it's "wasted" here or not. The forum serves my immediate purposes.

    I used to be the quintessential man about town. I knew everybody. I never felt like I was a stranger anywhere, regardless of setting. But every successful man, if he's self-aware enough and has Faith, comes to a point when he either realizes on his own or learns the hard lessons about the ephemeral nature of society and business friends, which is that they're really just self-interested acquaintances and nothing more.

    I have my son. I have my brother. And three ride-or-die men in my life, all of whom actually came together to save my life late last Spring. Beyond that, I have an emerging tight circle of other friends I believe in; people that will stick. I still know plenty of people around town, many in positions of influence, and I can still get things done. But these are mutually-beneficial arrangements.

    That said, I'm a nice person, and I believe in kindness and love. I've learned a lot about that in the last several months from someone that you all know and admire very much, and who has been a hero to all of us at one time or another. At least twice a week, he reminds me that sharing peace and love is our most important job. I've made some friends here, and I think you would probably be another one. Your political views don't matter a goddamn bit to me.

    But the two things I do really care about are: (1) respect; and (2) effort. Those two things were drilled into me by The Old Man for the entirety of his time on Earth with me, from 1970 to 2013.

    It's nice when people agree. But it's also useful when they don't. Ultimately, I don't care if you agree with me or not. I don't care if you like me or not. But I want you to know that when I engage with you or anyone else on something substantive, even if it's a matter of casual or passing interest, that you're getting the best I can give at that moment. That I think about what I say before I say it. That I try to have an informed opinion, and if I don't, I'll freely admit it and ask questions or do the research to get informed. That my words matter to me. And if I can't give you my best, then I'll ask for more time, or just cede the point.

    Writing about sports is a lot easier for me. I grew up with it. I spent my formative years doing it, and getting paid for it. But the things discussed here are different. In gathering together and having a conversation about civic affairs, we are fulfilling our duty to contribute to an informed citizenry. I care about the decline of public discourse in this country, wherever it occurs. In the pages of our historically-leading newspapers, on tee-vee, on Twitter, in here, or in line waiting for a f*cking urinal. I can be crass and profane and homespun and good 'ol boy the ever loving sh*t out of you. So this isn't necessarily about pursuing an elevated tone in all respects. But it is about having meaning. It is about forethought. And, when I follow that recipe, I have fun, too.

    But this is just me. And it's my personal statement. I have no idea why I just wrote all of this here -- let alone that I'm posting it -- but that's more my new order of business these days. Just write it, and let it all hang out.

    Fire away.
  13. Duke Silver

    Duke Silver Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Nothing accomplishes anything with JG. He’s an obstinate, disingenuous legend in his own head who has no interest in good faith argument. But by all means continue. I love watching the process.
    fdub206 and Halas like this.
  14. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

  15. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    With experience comes knowledge. Give it time and you'll understand. It took me about 2 months to realize what was going on.
    Duke Silver likes this.
  16. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Wow. A lot of personal insight most of us rarely show other posters. Thank you for that.

    I enjoy writing myself. I actually do it for a living, and I consider myself good at it. It’s a very different writing style; I investigate damage to buildings and then prepare reports detailing my findings. So it’s technical writing that is used for legal purposes. I’ve been doing this for a living for 25 years, and I have managed to support myself well doing so.

    This board is a far different animal from my normal writing. Throw in that there is a dominant clique here that basically strives to squash dissent and difference.

    I saw that you responded to Duke Silver. I finally got tired of his act, and put him on ignore, but you see what he’s about. He is very much the 12-year-old schoolyard bully that picks on other kids to get positive strokes from his posse. Other posters do similar insults. We must squelch opinions that different, all the better if we can insult them enough to leave.

    There is something about this board that stimulates a part of me that I am often not very proud of. I am opinionated and stubborn and I believe I am always right. A post hits that nerve and off I go.

    I find myself arguing just to argue, and as the insults flow rather than walking away as I ought to, or working to craft better arguments, I get more and more shrill.

    I have to do some pondering. When it is another engineer or an attorney challenging my findings or expertise, I can calmly and coldly dissect their findings and completely skewer them. All done with a tone of respect while making it clear they are 100% wrong. But here, I first lose the perspective then the calm, and then I just seem like a shrill whiner arguing just to argue.

    I appreciate your perspective, WW. If I am going to post, I need to step back, take things less personally, and make good and well crafted points. Time to stop being lazy about it.
  17. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    This might be the best thing you have said in a long while John.
    If you will think back you will remember that this has been my main disagreement with you for a long time.
    If you are going to engage in a conversation/debate?
    Then do so with your best efforts and with the intention of explaining and defending your stances/feelings with intelligent and informed arguments that require measured and well thought out responses in kind.
    You are a very intelligent man and also very passionate and honest in your feelings/stances.
    Use that intelligence and ability to support your points and you will gain 100 times more than you would if you are just being argumentative for the sake of making noise in protest.
    Speaking strictly for myself, and as your friend.....I may never agree with you, but I will respect you on orders of magnitude more when it comes to discussions/debates on here if you do.

    Semper Fi
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  18. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Thanks for writing this WWM.
    I wish everyone would read this and take it to heart.
    You captured and wrote something that I have felt needed to be conveyed for many here (Including myself at times) for a long time.
    I honestly believe there are some of the most well read, intelligent and interesting people here who bring a wealth of knowledge, skill and experience to the arena when it comes to discussing different subjects (Besides Sports) that affect or lives, our country, our families and our futures.
    But all too often these same folks who have insights, experience and knowledge of these subjects would rather be lazy and just do drive by sarcasm and insults with someone they disagree with rather than engage and discuss on the merits and facts.

    Guys like yourself and @padrehorn11 , @HornsWin and others who have been migrating here lately are welcome additions in that you are making a genuine effort to discuss/debate with intelligence and well reasoned arguments, and that requires the same effort in return.
    We all become richer when we share wisdom, knowledge and experience.

    And on a personal note.....I for one am damned glad you are once again using that "Gift".
    And will be the first to kick your ass back to reality if you ever stop or doubt yourself again.

    Semper Fi
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
    Shane3, HornsWin and padrehorn11 like this.
  19. W.W. McClyde

    W.W. McClyde Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Bravo, John. And thank you.

    I hesitated for several minutes before I posted what I did, then decided to hell with it. Let it rip.

    I've learned the hard way that being vulnerable -- or at least being willing to get a little uncomfortable and sharing part of yourself -- is a good thing. It may not come back to you immediately, but it will in the end.

    There was a time in my tenure here when I was in a very, very dark place. I said some things, including some to you, that I've come to regret. But it's part of who I was at the time, and what I was going through.

    For the avoidance of doubt, I can still be a pompous ass. Other times, I can be a straight running dick. What's even worse about it, is that I'm doing it for fun. But I do it far less often, and I certainly don't hate anybody. If we don't let go of our resentments, they will bury us. Maybe not now. Maybe not a year from now. But eventually, they will.

    Today, we each stepped out from behind our keyboard personas and said something about who we really are. In my book, that is always a good thing.

    Now back to our regularly-scheduled scrimmage.
  20. W.W. McClyde

    W.W. McClyde Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I won't dispute the seriousness of the issue with you. But I do believe that what President Trump is doing here is exceedingly far away from you appear to think is the ordinary course of business these days. I won't get into the legalities of it (I did enough of that already), but suffice it to say that it's an unconstitutional subversion of the separation of powers doctrine upon which the long-term health of the Republic depends.
  21. RepOfTexas

    RepOfTexas Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    It’s unfortunate that it’s gotten to this point.
    Shane3 likes this.
  22. Shane3

    Shane3 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Excellent post. I’m not a good writer, but I appreciate people who have that God-given skill. This is the best board I’ve found for politics so I stayed, even though I live in CA.
    TexasPalladin likes this.
  23. jhablinski

    jhablinski Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    My point would be we declare national emergencies for crap going on in other countries that aren’t even close to national emergencies here and nobody cares.

    This is an actual national emergency (imo) waaay more than many of those foreign wars.

    Can you tell me why one is an over reach and the others aren’t??

    Seems awfully political
    horn78 and msflash like this.
  24. cctxfan

    cctxfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Yep, this and posts by WW and JG are a bit refreshing. The board of late, led by a few folks, has become a combination of drive-by of insults and boorishness.

    After the infamous three liberals left, the board was pretty even-keeled place, but as time as worn on, those posters have been replaced by others from the opposite side of the fence. Now, that said, I've often not been on my best behavior (gamma often brought out the worst in me) and I would like to change that. I'm willing to engage in an honest discussion, even if there is stern disagreement, but am done with posters who just want to hurl insults, whether they are claimed sarcasm or not.

    Others can decide who the posters are who are willing to engage and, if needed, change their ways or who simply want to continue with sophomoric foolishness. I don't have time for the latter.
    TexasPalladin likes this.
  25. Halas

    Halas Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    You blocked several people because you made an incredible weak argument on Christianity and when proven wrong you threw a hissy fit. At least call it what it is.
  26. padrehorn11

    padrehorn11 Member Who Talks

    I have a hard time seeing that. I'm not saying there's no problem, I'm no "abolish ICE, open-borders" type but I just don't see that it's nearly as serious as Trump and his base make it out to be. I'd like to see better controls on immigration but I don't see evidence for tremendous costs (when you also consider the offsetting benefits) and I don't see major changes to our country due to illegal immigration. And, as I mentioned in another post, before moving back to West Texas last year I lived in the deep Valley, about 15 or 20 miles from the border. You'd think I'd see big changes to this country there, if anywhere. My Spanish (or I should say Spanglish) needed to get better to make things go more smoothly, and it did, but it wasn't a major concern.

    Could you be more specific? I mean I keep hearing this, but I don't see a huge problem. You raised the subject of "foreign wars". (Not to be too much of a smartass, but since the Civil War, haven't they all been "foreign?) I can't imagine that the human and monetary costs of illegal immigration are even a blip compared to the Iraq War, for example.
  27. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Let me try to answer at least part of what you are talking about.
    Part of the basis for your assumption as to whether or not there is a need for better security and controls on the border is your experience of living in the border country for a number of years. Several folks here and across the spectrum of media and politics have offered this observation up as a reason to discount the immigration/border crisis....and you are forgetting a important factor that many do in order to justify their stance.
    About 95% of the people who cross the border illegally do so with the express intent of transiting into the interior of the country in order to find work, gangs and a place to disappear. Most of the criminal elements transit to places where there is a large element of other illegals and join a existing criminal enterprise (MS-13, Mexican Mafia, drug cartels, etc) and reinforce their numbers. The criminal statistics that are given where it comes to illegal crime are under-reported due to the fact that the illegal communities look at law enforcement as they do police and law enforcement in their home countries and do not interact with the police or other LEO's. Whether it is drugs, human trafficking or any other enterprise, the criminal types are going to go where they can engage where they believe they can do so safely.
    This is just one facet of the entire picture, but it is one that argues for more and better security at the border that will enforce our sovereignty.

    Semper Fi
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  28. jhablinski

    jhablinski Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Let me try

    Not sure why you don’t think there is a huge cost to illegal immigration because it has been well documented what we spend on it and it’s astronomical. As the numbers of illegal immigrants go up so will the cost. The costs don’t even take into account the crime portion.

    You are right about wars and where they take place but missing the point. Most of the wars you are talking about like Iraq were not a declaration from the President but an act of Congress and while I agree they are also an enormous waste of time and money it’s not the same thing. Obama for example claimed a national emergency to aid several countries like Yemen, Somalia, Lybia, and several others. Most are not a national emergency at all just a way for a president to score political points and appropriate funds. This issue (whether you agree or not) does affect us therefore is much closer to a national emergency then the others.

    Why is it all the sudden different?? It’s because it’s trump. And while I feel like W.W.Mclyde wrote a well thought out piece on the subject I know how he feels about trump.

    It clouds his judgement and that’s why it’s hard for me to take seriously. The Never Trumpers act like every single thing he does is the end of the world.

    My dilemma is some of the stuff might be actually damaging but they have cried wolf so many times I don’t know which ones should concern me.
    The_Major and msflash like this.
  29. 40A

    40A Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    You've literally never done this.
    Duke Silver likes this.
  30. cctxfan

    cctxfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    And if the same were said of you? Talk about drive by comments...
  31. 40A

    40A Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I wouldn't care, because I'm no JG - or you for that matter.
  32. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    40A, to you ANY argument that does not parrot the conservative line that you are taught by Hannity and Rush by definition cannot be well-crafted. The art is lost upon you.
  33. 40A

    40A Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Thumbs up!
  34. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

  35. cctxfan

    cctxfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I swear, there is a segment of posters on this forum that just can’t get enough of ridiculing JG. It’s like part of their morning routine.

    If JG had penned this piece he would have been derided for Trump Derangement Syndrome. But since it was written by a well-respected member on the sports board we got a lot of crickets from that same segment.

    WW should write a piece and change it up to include some JG lingo, but the substance would be exactly the same. Then let JG post it and watch the insults and drive by comments ensue.
    CalHorn and Flog like this.
  36. 40A

    40A Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Not just my morning routine, chief.

    BTW, I love this newfound pandering towards WW.
  37. HornsWin

    HornsWin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Uncalled for.
  38. HornsWin

    HornsWin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I am digging all the hugging it out bitch that's going on here, a few folks not withstanding.
  39. 40A

    40A Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Find one time and I'll take it back.
  40. HornsWin

    HornsWin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    In my experience, there have been plenty. That doesn't mean I agree with him - I don't 90% of the time and he knows that. But an argument can be well crafted without being necessarily agreeable.

    As well, you can disagree with someone without discarding civility. What has he ever done to you that you feel the need to go out of your way to criticize him? That lacks the charity I would expect from you.

    If I may be so bold, what I have noticed about you (and so many others) is that you don't make the effort to understand what he (or anyone else) is saying from his (or anyone else's) perspective. You just react. You seem to lack empathy, which is why you are unable to civilly disagree. It's not that someone has said something that you disagree with. It's that what they have said is disagreeable to you and is somehow an affront that you must respond to. With a little empathy, you would be able to allow other opinions to co-exist with your own.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
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